AI isn’t just a tool — it’s a weapon used by both fraud fighters and fraudsters. In this second of two special crossover episodes of the c-suite podcast and Sumsub’s ‘What The Fraud?’, Recorded live at Money20/20 Europe in Amsterdam, industry leaders break down the battle lines. Once again, we handed over hosting duties to ‘What the Fraud?’ presenter, Thomas Taraniuk, who was joined by the following guests: 1/ Spencer Hanlon, Chief Operating Officer, Nium 2/ Clarena Furtado, Head of Online International Business, PagSeguro 3/ Ian Morrin, Head of Payments & Platforms, Tink 4/ Darek Paleczny, Chief Risk & Compliance Officer, Worldline Spencer Hanlon, Chief Operating Officer at Nium Spencer Hanlon, Chief Operating Officer at Nium, joined us to discuss the growing complexities of operational risk in the fintech and payments space. With a background that spans both the travel and fintech sectors, Spencer offered a seasoned perspective on the fast-paced, high-stakes nature of fraud prevention in today’s environment. Spencer noted that fraud prevention is an ongoing battle, likening it to a “war” against increasingly sophisticated bad actors. He stressed that while technology like AI is helping to bolster defences, it is also arming the opposition with new tools to circumvent traditional protections. In this landscape, people remain a company’s most valuable asset. Hiring individuals with deep knowledge of fraud patterns and threat landscapes is essential, he said, especially in a space where fraud is a shared problem rather than a competitive one. Reflecting on the tactics used by fraudsters, Spencer acknowledged the investment criminals make in understanding systems, sometimes to the same degree as legitimate operators. He advised companies to stay “centre lane” in terms of risk appetite until they have developed a solid understanding of the controls needed to safely expand into more volatile verticals. Entering unfamiliar markets without proper preparation, he warned, is a surefire way to attract the attention of bad actors. When asked about the risk-versus-growth trade-off at Nium, Spencer explained that while deviating from safer, more competitive markets opens up revenue potential, it must be approached cautiously. Nium takes “baby steps,” bringing in people with experience in higher-risk verticals to ensure that operational and risk strategies are aligned. Spencer also addressed the challenge of managing distributed external risk, especially as embedded finance continues to grow. When fraud occurs on a partner’s platform, it can still impact Nium’s infrastructure. Navigating these situations requires a balance between regulatory obligations and customer service, with respect and transparency playing key roles. Delays and due diligence are part of the industry norm, and successful partnerships are built on mutual understanding and mature communication. Looking ahead, Spencer highlighted the impact of real-time payments (RTP) as a major shift in the global payments space. The demand for near-instantaneous transfers creates both operational pressure and new fraud vulnerabilities. He advocated for a shift in focus from speed to timing, urging the industry to concentrate on whether payments arrive when promised, rather than as fast as possible. In this environment, AI presents a promising solution, offering scalable intelligence that can reduce the need for human intervention without compromising security. As fintechs continue to evolve in response to consumer demands for instant gratification, Spencer acknowledged the tension between speed and safety. But it’s precisely this challenge, he said, that makes the space so dynamic. The pressure to innovate while safeguarding systems and users is what keeps teams like his moving forward. Clarena Furtado, Head of Online International Business at PagSeguro Clarena Furtado, Head of Online International Business at PagSeguro, discussed how the company is navigating risk, growth, and evolving consumer demands across Latin America. As part of the PagBank group, which has seen rapid expansion across the region, Clarena offered a detailed view into the operational complexity and strategic choices involved in scaling in LATAM while keeping fraud and risk in check. PagSeguro’s success in Brazil, where it operates as both a bank and acquirer, has laid a strong foundation for expansion. Clarena explained that the company’s approach has focused on cross-selling its robust Brazilian solutions into other LATAM markets. This required securing the right partners, spanning operational, fraud, and local payment providers, to meet the unique needs of each country. She emphasized the importance of tailoring the approach to each market’s landscape rather than treating Latin America as a monolith. While Spanish is spoken across most of the region, Brazil remains distinct in both language and regulatory environment, and even within Spanish-speaking countries, differences in consumer behaviour, market maturity, and regulation demand nuanced strategies. Managing risk in such a diverse region requires a flexible, data-driven approach. PagSeguro leverages AI and advanced analytics to adapt its fraud prevention systems across various verticals and payment methods. From retail to travel to high-risk sectors like sports betting, each vertical presents different consumer behaviours and risk profiles. The company also shares risk management responsibilities with regional partners, including large acquirers, building collaborative plans based on shared data and coordinated fraud tools. Clarena also spoke about the evolution of real-time payments in the region, notably Brazil’s Pix system. Operated by the Central Bank, Pix has revolutionized consumer expectations around speed and accessibility, but it also brought new vulnerabilities that fraudsters were quick to exploit. In response, both the government and the private sector made significant adjustments, such as capping transaction values during night-time hours. This model of rapid collaboration has helped solidify Pix as a successful instant payment method in Brazil. Other countries like Colombia and Peru are following suit with their own instant payment systems, introducing wallets like Yape and Bre-B. Each brings its own set of risk management challenges, particularly in adapting tools quickly enough to stay ahead of fraud threats. The conversation also touched on the broader shifts in consumer expectations, especially among younger generations. Clarena noted how today’s users demand both speed and security, with little tolerance for delay. This pressure drives the continual evolution of alternative payment methods, which are becoming more refined and prevalent across LATAM. She highlighted the importance of balancing user experience with security and regulatory compliance, three priorities that must be managed simultaneously to sustain growth without compromising trust. In a region as dynamic and complex as Latin America, PagSeguro is proving that success comes from adapting to local realities, investing in technology, and staying aligned with consumer expectations. As Clarena pointed out, the market is evolving rapidly, and the fraud landscape is constantly shifting. But with the right partnerships and a vigilant approach, companies can meet the moment, and the future, head-on. Ian Morrin, General Manager for Payments and Platforms in Europe and CEO of Tink Ian Morrin, General Manager for Payments and Platforms in Europe and CEO of Tink UK, shared his perspective on the evolving payments landscape, highlighting how open banking has matured from regulatory hype to delivering real commercial value. He noted a shift in how merchants now approach the technology—not just as a requirement but as a tool to solve specific customer journey challenges. Account funding remains the strongest use case, and as deployments become more thoughtful, adoption is gaining momentum. Ian believes this uptick will accelerate over the next year as use cases become more aligned with end-user needs. Navigating growth in a highly regulated environment remains a challenge, but Morrin emphasized the importance of a strong compliance and legal function that is not just reactive but aligned with business goals. According to him, when commercial and compliance teams work in close collaboration and understand the rules they operate within, they can move forward with confidence. Trust emerged as a central theme in the conversation, particularly when working with third parties in the embedded finance space. Morrin stressed that for any new payment method to gain traction, it must deliver a solid, simple experience and appear in environments where users already feel secure. He highlighted the need to manage user expectations carefully—removing friction in some journeys, while recognizing that a little friction in high-value transactions can actually enhance consumer confidence. On the topic of compliance within embedded finance, Morrin pointed out that responsibilities depend on the operating model. In Tink’s licensed arrangements, for instance, compliance risk sits with Tink, making robust verification flows essential. As the embedded finance ecosystem grows, he believes Fintechs looking to scale should prioritize collaboration. Sharing insights and learning from others in the space can be a competitive advantage and reinforce the compliance foundation needed for sustainable growth. When asked about artificial intelligence, Morrin acknowledged both its promise and its peril. While AI offers tools for protecting users and improving experiences, it also presents new risks as fraudsters adapt the same technologies. The response, he said, must again be rooted in collaboration. Working closely with banks, financial institutions, and merchants is essential to staying ahead of fraud and keeping the end user safe. Morrin’s appearance at the event underlined the industry’s collective responsibility to build secure, user-friendly systems through thoughtful innovation, effective regulation, and shared expertise. Darek Paleczny, Chief Risk and Compliance Officer at Worldline Darek Paleczny, Chief Risk and Compliance Officer at Worldline, joined the podcast to discuss how digital-first infrastructure is reshaping fraud and compliance in the payments and fintech space. Speaking with host Thomas, Darek highlighted the dynamic and rapidly evolving nature of fraud patterns, noting that what works today may not be sufficient in six months’ time. In such a fast-paced environment, the focus for Worldline is on continuous adaptation rather than simply implementing off-the-shelf tools. Darek likened fraud detection systems to sports cars: while they may appear impressive, true effectiveness lies in tailoring and tuning them to suit specific business needs and risk appetites. He emphasized the importance of internal alignment across risk and compliance teams, ensuring first-line and second-line functions are closely linked through feedback loops. This collaboration is key to anticipating and reacting to emerging threats rather than relying on static processes. Darek also stressed that fraud prevention should be embedded from the start. Many businesses, especially fast-growing merchants, fall into the trap of prioritizing growth at the expense of compliance. This short-term focus can lead to significant challenges when trying to retrofit or unwind processes later on. Instead, he advocates for building robust frameworks from the outset, which ultimately makes scaling smoother and more secure. The conversation also touched on the dual goals of delivering a seamless customer experience while meeting regulatory expectations. According to Darek, these objectives should not be at odds. In fact, introducing what he called “healthy friction” can actually enhance security and trust for both businesses and users. He pointed out that compliance should never be treated as a tick-box exercise but rather as a living system that evolves with the business. When asked about artificial intelligence, Darek cautioned against blind reliance. While AI offers powerful tools for fraud detection, he stressed that its effectiveness depends entirely on the governance and oversight structures in place. Without clear understanding and control, AI can behave in unexpected ways, potentially creating new risks. Darek’s final advice to compliance leaders was clear: avoid shortcuts, invest in solid foundations early, and ensure systems are interconnected. Sharing data intelligently across onboarding, AML, and fraud tools can make compliance not just more efficient, but more insightful. By treating data as a strategic asset rather than a reporting requirement, businesses can build smarter systems that both protect and enable their growth. In partnership with PRCA members receive 10 CPD points for listening to this podcast if they log it on the CPD programme. View episode
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